Alcohol and God

[leonswan2000]

Ok here it is. First I am an atheist. 99.9%.  Ive read the statistics in Wicopedia so I am familure with those. They are both for and against. So many variables. Needs tons more research I guess. Ok The question I have is this. IN AA you are not required to have a god or higher power. However if you read the twelve steps that are really the whole program if you didnt have a God that was supernatural it wouldnt realy work. IE your higher power could be Grand Coulee Dam but it couldnt relieve you of the obbsesion to drink. So can a person can stop drinking by the delusion of God? A God Placebo?  If even a Placebo God could cure an addiction wouldnt that persons paticular belief be justified. [worth having, good] If this is so couldnt we use the same method for all sorts of things. We do. There are twelve step meetings for about anything you can think of. Drugs, smoking, sex, food, gamblimg, non dairy creamer....no I made that one up.  Anyways I go to AA. I dont realy believe the twelve steps will work for me but I do like the support and suggestions that are practical.  If I make this any longer no one will read it so there it is. What are your thoughts. Maybe there is a god and he only works on addictions? for some people? randomly? [ I'm going to apologize for my spelling here so if you see my name in the future this goes for that also]

[Mark L Holland]

When God or Gods have given someone the proofs and evidence needed to believe like the curing of addictions or something as simple as having ones soul touched by a God or Gods who says (I am here).  Then God or Gods exist for this person, but personal or individual proofs or evidence cannot be given to anyone else to validate the existence of God or Gods.

  I am a Theist who believes that at least one God exists because I believe I have been given the proofs and evidence needed to believe and yet God nor Gods can exist where the proofs and evidence for their existence has not been given.  For me at least one God exists, for an Atheist no God or Gods exist.  Only God or Gods can prove their existence and if they do not give the evidence or proofs then they do not exist.

  I have taken heat from Atheists claiming that both cannot be right, I see no contradiction in this.  I you are driving down a state route somewhere and a UFO lands in the road in front of you an alien gets out of it waves to you and then gets back in the UFO and takes off leaving no evidence behind.  You have been given proofs and evidence that UFO’s exist.  And yet anyone that you tell this story will be sizing you up with their eyes for a straight jacket.  Reality can only be established through proofs and evidence, until that is done it is reasonable not to believe in UFO’s God or Gods.
 

[Whitney]

Have you ever heard the phrase "god/religion is a crutch"?  This applies to AA.  For those that have success with AA it is because they needed to believe someone very powerful was helping them in order for them to find within themselves the ability to overcome their issues.  The problem with this is that if they lose their faith they will quickly fall off that wagon if they aren't able to very quickly figure out that it was their self who got over the addiction rather than being helped by god.

The only real help AA provides is a support group and there are secular alternatives that don't involve self delusion.

In many ways, AA is just replacing one addiction with another; trading alcohol for religion.

[LoneMateria]

On Penn and Tellers Bullshit! series they did an episode on AA.  Their research team found that the percentage of people who attend AA who quit is the exact same percent as people in the general population who quit on will power.  It's something like 5 or 10 percent if I remember correctly.  Anyway it demonstrates that there is no benefit to attending AA since the number who attend it and quit matches the general population who does it without AA.

[AlP]

I've been to AA meetings. Read the instructions. It has belief in a higher power, prayer, ritual, doctrine, etc. AA is a religion. That's why it didn't work for me. It might work for some people. I don't deny that religion can be powerful. But that doesn't make it true.

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcoholâ€"that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

[Ihateyoumike]

Prey on the weak- whether they be in prison, addicts, children, or anything else.

That's the Christian way.

[kenh]

There are several secular alternatives to the AA, such as SOS and Smart Recovery.  Perhaps there is one in your area.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5054254_secular-drug-rehab.html